Nonprofit Communications Strategy [Nonprofit Marketing with Rick Cohen, Part 1]

Introduction to Marketing Nonprofit Organizations

[0:00] Man, am I stoked to kick off this new season all about marketing nonprofit organizations. And since marketing a nonprofit has everything to do with getting the message out, we figured what better way to start the season than with the chief communications officer for the National Council of Nonprofits, Mr. Rick Cohen. The National Council of Nonprofits is North America’s largest network of charitable nonprofits. Rick, Rick has spent his entire career in the nonprofit space.

In fact, he’s been with the National Council of Nonprofits for nearly two decades. So, if you’re here to refine your 501c3’s communication strategy, you are in the right place. Rick knows NPOs. Mr. Cohen and I will discuss refining, segmenting, and solidifying your nonprofit messaging, peer-to-peer communications, and donations. Advocacy. Advocacy is huge. Email marketing, fundraising, and donor appreciation. It’s all in the next episode, folks. If there’s anything we left out, do us a favor, drop us a comment. I’d love to wrangle Rick for a second episode and fill in any gaps. By the way, this is just episode one of an entire series all about marketing nonprofits. You do not want to miss it.

So, hit subscribe now and you’ll be alerted when the rest of the episodes come out. If you like what you’re hearing, please hit the like button. Give our non-profitable podcast a little advantage in that YouTube algorithm. And now, drum roll, please. Mr. Rick Cohen, Chief Communications Officer for the National Council.

[1:28] Music.

[1:39] And we’re back. It’s another episode of the Niche Marketing Podcast. I’m your host, Jon Bertino. And today, I’m very excited to have my guest, Rick Cohen from the National Council of Nonprofits.

Setting the Stage with Rick Cohen

[1:48] Rick, thanks for being here. Thanks for having me, Jon.

[1:51] So, Rick, this is likely to be the first episode in our series of content all about how to market nonprofits. And when we were doing some research on where we should start, where should we begin, the first thing that became abundantly clear was head to Washington, D.C. So, we’re in the greater DC area today. More specifically, we’re in, where is this? Falls Church. Falls Church, Virginia. And we’re at Crescendo Studios. Shout out to Crescendo. And after we identified where we need to be, it was then, okay, who do we have to have on?

And so, we figured, what better guest or entity to start out with than the National Council of Nonprofits and yourself, Mr. Cohen. Your title, as I understand it, it’s a long one. Chief Communications Officer slash Chief Operating Officer for the National Council of Nonprofits. Rick, could you start off telling us a little bit about what the National Council of Nonprofits is? Sure. Well, the National Council of Nonprofits is North America’s largest network of charitable nonprofits representing nonprofits from California up to Ontario. And so, we do a lot of work helping nonprofits get the resources they need to do their work. We also advocate on behalf of nonprofits to make sure that there’s a positive public policy environment for them to continue helping their communities.

[3:10] And you said it so succinct and so clearly, Rick, but I bet there’s just so much that goes into that. I mean, a council of nonprofits, the nonprofit universe is huge. You must wear many hats. Well, I mean, the title says I’m doing the IT, the HR, the finance, and the communications, but communications have always been my passion. It’s been the sweet spot. It’s been where I’ve spent my career. It’s what I love doing is making sure that people understand how nonprofits work. It’s really a very misunderstood sector. Most people don’t realize it’s the third largest employer in the country. More than 10 million people are working for nonprofits and just making sure people understand that and the impact that they’re making every day, whether it’s the arts, whether it’s healthcare, whether it’s job training.

[4:05] There’s just so many different things that nonprofits are doing, and it keeps me busy. Yeah, I have no doubt. And before we get into the heart of the discussion, just really quick, Rick, what can you tell us about yourself? Where are you from? Did you grow up in this area? I think you mentioned how long you’ve been doing this, wife, kids, stuff like that. Sure. I actually grew up in New Jersey and moved down here for college and met the love of my life and never left. And so, we’re here. We live just outside of D.C. My office is in D.C. With our son. And so, it’s a place I love to be. My wife works in government relations. She worked on the Hill for a number of years. So, this is really the place to be for that. Yeah.

[4:56] Really, since the pandemic, a lot of things have moved outside of D.C., you know, all the things you can do remotely now. But still, it’s important to be based here so that we can do a lot of the advocacy work that’s so important. Yeah, well, a few more reasons why you clearly have your hands full. And so, all the more reason we appreciate you spending some time with us. All right, so let’s get into it. Let’s start just with the basics. How does a nonprofit’s communication strategy fundamentally differ, if at all, from a for-profit communication strategy? In a lot of ways, they’re very much the same.

Nonprofit Communication Strategy vs. For-Profit Strategy

[5:32] Nonprofits or businesses like for-profits, the only difference between a nonprofit and a for- profit is what happens to the profits that they make. Nonprofit is kind of a misnomer. Nonprofits need to make profits to be able to be sustainable. But those profits get put right back into the mission of the organization as opposed to going into the pockets of shareholders. So, you know, from a marketing perspective, they’re still going out. They still need to raise awareness of the services that they provide. They still need to find, you know, quote unquote customers. And those customers can be those people coming to them for services, or they can be volunteers or donors or really anything. And so, it’s just a matter of a slightly different focus of the message.

[6:22] It’s not bought this; it’s donated so we can do this. Yeah. So, it’s really very similar. Yeah, and your audience personas when it comes to nonprofit marketing can vary significantly, right?

[6:39] In most cases, if not all cases, you can accept very small donations to very large donations. And then again, the entity behind that can vary significantly. So, can you talk a little bit about audience targeting, segmentation, and things like that in the nonprofit space? Sure. And a lot of that is focused on volunteers and donors, where you want to take a look at how each person wants to interact with your organization. What is it that drew them to your organization? Is it something that they have a personal connection to?

Audience Targeting and Segmentation in Nonprofit Marketing

[7:13] Where a lot of people, if they’re connected to, say, a cancer nonprofit, they probably had somebody in their family who was affected by it. People who are passionate about animals and finding homes for dogs and cats. And so, finding out what was it that drew them there and how is it that you can engage them and what are the ways that they want to be engaged? Some people really want to be kind of at arm’s length. They want to make a yearly donation and that’s what they want to do. Some people really want to roll up their sleeves and get involved and find ways they can come in as a volunteer. Maybe they’re a future employee. Maybe they end up on your board of directors. And just finding the different ways that each person connects to your issues so that you can move them from being a $10 donor to a $25 donor to a $50 donor to potentially putting the organization in their will.

[8:13] You know, so it really is a matter of treating each person individually, and then you can segment into, you know, these are the people who we know are only going to donate once a year, so we’re not going to bombard them with messages in July because we know they’re going to always donate in December. If we bother them too much, they might step back. But for the most part, it’s really meeting people where they are because they’re there because they care, which is a good thing. And it is something that differs from for-profits, which is you have even more loyalty to an organization. You’re really bought in when you’re donating or volunteering. It’s not just, you know, I like Coke, or I like Pepsi. That’s right. You know, maybe there’s one of those wild new flavors they keep coming out with. And so, yeah, I’ll try this other thing. With a nonprofit, if you’re doing good work, if you’re continuing to do the work that, you know, those people care about, you’ve got a partner for life. Yeah, you know…

[9:21] Just as you were talking there, it really landed with me that in this particular space, different from your typical consumer product, good, for example, if your message really clicks and lands with somebody where just they already have an innate interest or passion for the cause, they could be engaging with you on a daily basis, maybe even multiple times a day. And if and when they’re engaging in that way, they’re probably, again, bringing a tremendous amount of passion behind it. And that is so different from almost all consumer product goods. I mean, every once in a while, you might get a good that really sets people off. I don’t know, like a Tesla a couple years ago or whatever, but it’s very rare that someone looks to engage with a brand that often. But nonprofits, this could be somewhat of the norm.

[10:13] And that creates tremendous opportunity for building advocacy and just, again, helping to spread the message. So, speaking of spreading the message, let’s take a quick step backward and just talk about the core components that any nonprofit should be looking at when solidifying their communication strategy. Sure. And it really comes down to who and why. You want to be making sure you’re taking into account, why are you doing this work?

Core Components of Nonprofit Communication Strategy

[10:43] What is it that you’re trying to achieve in the world? Are you trying to cure cancer or are you trying to aid the families of people who have somebody who’s in cancer treatment?

[10:56] Very different missions, very different things. You know, is it, you know, there are just so many different, missions in the in the non-profit sector and so it’s figuring out why people why you’re doing this why people want to connect with you and find and going back to those audience profiles and thinking about who are these people why do they want to engage what are the different ways that they want to be involved and so really the basics are very much the same as finding customers in the for-profit space. And it’s also a matter of wanting to retain those people. Just like for-profits, it costs more to acquire a new donor than it does to keep a donor. And so, you’ve really got to keep in mind making sure the people who are already supporting the organization are happy and learning from them, learning what resonated with them, which can help build your message, which can help bring more people in? And how can you take those people who are so passionate?

[12:09] Like you were saying, they can help spread the word. They can bring 20 people to a fundraiser and potentially they bring 20 people, hopefully you get five who are ongoing donors and then they find more people and they find more people and suddenly the organization has more resources to do the work. And so it really is tapping into the passion in a way that you can’t really do as much in the for-profit world. So, it’s, it’s a good thing for nonprofits if you can take that step back. And the key is to listen.

[12:47] You may think the message needs to be one thing. And this was your passion. You started this organization 10 years ago, and this is why you do it. But something else may be resonating with people. And if you really want to build, you’ve got to be listening to your audience. Just like any good company, or in this case, organization.

[13:09] You make those subtle, occasionally dramatic pivots as needed to ultimately give the consumer, in this case the donor, what it is they’re looking for. By the way, you mentioned having your donors help aid in the process of getting other donors. I believe in this space that’s referred to as peer-to-peer, is it not? Sure. And just while we’re on the subject, could your kind of quickly maybe define or elaborate this concept of peer-to-peer? Because I know it’s fairly important. Sure. It’s simply a matter of using word of mouth and people, you know, the best spokespeople for your organization sometimes aren’t the people

Utilizing Peer-to-Peer Advocacy in Nonprofit Marketing

[13:46] who are on the staff of the organization. It’s the people who are so passionate about it that they want to go. And, you know, this used to, I don’t know, 10, 15 years ago be, hey, post a Facebook fundraiser for your birthday.

[14:03] And before Facebook declined a bit and Twitter turned into X and all the things that have happened since Elon took over, it used to be you start with word of mouth, it brings more people in. They can use social media to bring more people in. You find influencers who can bring more people in and find what resonates. And you may have multiple messages for different people within your audience. And that’s fine. Different things are going to resonate with different people. But finding that passion, tapping that passion can help spread the word, bring in more people, and make the organization more effective.

[14:49] Going back to the components of a non-profit communication strategy. From a purely tactical perspective, if you’re starting to map out what that

Diversifying Communication Channels for Nonprofits

[14:58] strategy looks like, are there certain channels? Maybe go through what some of the

channels are you’re going to utilize. And if there are certain channels that maybe are more commonly used or more commonly effective with nonprofit communications than maybe in a for- profit company. Yeah, really, it’s going to depend on the organization and the way they do do their work. In a lot of cases, social media is going to be a part of that. Email marketing is going to be a part of that. In-person fundraisers are going to be a part of that. But you also have a lot of organizations that engage in advocacy. Sometimes the way to achieve their aims is to.

[15:39] Bring about change. And sometimes that means changing legislation. It can be something as small as getting a stop sign in a local neighborhood. It can be as big as, you know, one of the things my organization was engaged in that was getting financial relief for nonprofits so that they could make it through the pandemic. And that took a whole lot of advocacies. And there is other, and working with the media is another part of it, and it may just be raising the visibility of a cause, but working with the media might be part of the aim toward advocacy in raising the profile of something that’s wrong in the community. So, there are just so many different channels, so many different aspects to communications. That’s why it’s good that you’re doing a whole series on that. That’s right. That’s right, Rick. and by the end of this series, we should have a good five to 10 hours’ worth of content. There’s probably going to be links on the screen somewhere, probably up there. Click on those, and you can see the other episodes. So, Rick, advocacy. This is something that’s come up multiple times in our preliminary research on the series we’re doing, and I know it’s a really important concept.

Understanding Advocacy in Nonprofit Organizations

[16:53] So, for those that are a little newer to the space, please give a definition of what you mean by advocacy precisely, and how is this different from lobbying? It’s sort of like a square and a rectangle.

[17:06] Lobbying is advocacy. Not all advocacy is lobbying. Lobbying is when you’re going to elected officials and you’re asking them to do this or not do this. A lot of times it’s, please don’t do this. You’re misunderstanding. You need to know how things work.

[17:25] Advocacy is a lot broader than that. Advocacy is signing more people up to the cause. Advocacy might be doing a petition. Advocacy is just raising the visibility of an issue sometimes. And it’s something that we do a lot of work on. We also do lobbying. But it’s important for nonprofits to know that advocacy is often essential to advocacy. Achieving their mission. And sometimes that includes lobbying, sometimes it doesn’t. But really, most people are in the nonprofit sector to solve a problem, to make change, not just to work the issue, but to solve the issue. And a lot of times that does involve doing that work. And so, some of the advocacy can be through the media. A lot of it does happen with elected officials or appointed officials it can be agents you know federal agencies since we’re talking here right outside Washington D.C. uh there are a lot of places it can be advocacy in the courts um you know there’s a lot of advocacies to keep the citizenship question off of the census in 2020. There was a lot of non-profit advocacy around that that was a supreme court case where my organization filed an amicus brief uh so there’s a.

[18:51] There are a lot of forms that nonprofit advocacy can take, but it’s really core to what nonprofits do. It’s not an add-on. It’s not something to be afraid of. It’s essential. Mm-hmm. Let me attempt to relay that back to you, and I’ll probably fumble through it, but let me try to do it in kind of outsider terms. Sure. 20 years in marketing, but nonprofit space, and I guess we’ve done a fair amount of it, but it’s not something we’re dealing with every day. So let me see if I got this right. At the end of the day, we want to recruit advocates for our cause, right? This process of recruiting advocates is advocacy. But it becomes a bit of a chicken and egg scenario in how do you get people to champion a cause if they haven’t yet heard about it?

And then even if they hear about it, how do you get them to become passionate advocates, right? But in successfully pulling that off, in getting the message out, getting new advocates, they then help spread the word, which ultimately ends up being the most powerful form of marketing, which is word of mouth marketing. And so ultimately, my question to you was, how do you get more people to care about this and spread the word? Is that about, right? Today’s episode is brought to you by The Agency Guide. Are you frustrated with an underperforming marketing agency?

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[20:43] You need The Agency Guide. For over 10 years, TAG’s experienced marketing consultants have been providing pro bono consulting and matching brands with vetted agencies based on needs, budget, timeline, location, even your personnel. They’re marketing professionals. They’re agency matchmakers. They’re The Agency Guide. To learn more, visit www.theagencyguide.com today. That’s right, John. It really is something where it’s a cycle where you start with some people who are passionate about a certain cause, and they need to build energy. They need to build momentum. And a lot of that is word of mouth. Some of that is media. Some of that is marketing. I see now I’m watching TV at night and there are commercials from Feeding America about a certain legislation that they need to be able to continue to get food from farmers to the people who need the food. And part of that is addressing policymakers on Capitol Hill, making sure that that legislation is there. But the reason they’re running those commercials isn’t just to reach the people in Congress. It’s a very small audience.

[21:54] It’s reaching the staff of those people who are making policy, and it’s reaching the people who can pick up the phone and call their member of Congress, who can call their mayor, who can call whomever to say, hey, this really needs to happen, because if it doesn’t, we’re talking about more people who are not going to have food on their table tomorrow. And so, raising the visibility of the issue, getting more people involved so they can pick up the phone, so they can do all of the various things and bring in even more people, that’s really kind of what nonprofits do every day. Which just brings us right back to communications, right?

[22:34] Let’s talk social media a little bit. You touched on it already, but as someone that has been in

communications your entire career, right? And in nonprofits, it sounds like most of it as well. You must almost be sick of social media, right? I think we’re all a little sick of social media, but as marketers, we’re stuck with it, right? In fact, we’re doing it right now, aren’t we? Yeah. And really, it’s always changing. It’s always changing. You know, there’s some basics when you’re reaching out to a reporter and building a relationship with a reporter. But on social media, you went from Myspace to Facebook to Twitter to Instagram to TikTok and everything’s always changing. Did you just say Myspace, Rick? I did. I think you just dated yourself.

[23:22] You know, and, you know, hoping that nonprofit was going to be one of the top friends for somebody in Myspace. But, you know, really, it changes all the time. And once you really think you’ve got momentum on a certain social media network, then something else pops up and you’ve got to change the way that you work. And it’s challenging because a lot of nonprofits are under- resourced. They don’t have the time to learn a new social media platform to build a following on a new social media platform. I mean, we spent so much time at NCN building our Twitter following over a number of years. And now it’s tough to even get into the timelines of the people who are following us. And so, you know, do you move over to threads? You know, do we have something that resonates on TikTok? And for me dating myself, I don’t resonate on TikTok. Yeah. You know?

[24:29] TikTok’s tricky. Everything’s tricky. I mean, everything, you’ve got to do things just a little bit differently. And so, you know, social media is part of the mix, but it’s a different part of the mix for different organizations because when you’ve got puppies and babies, they resonate well on social media. Right, that’s one thing. But, you know, if you’re talking about complex tax issues, it’s not going to resonate quite as well. So, you know, every nonprofit, you’ve got to find your sweet spot and the sweet spot’s going to change. And in a lot of cases, it really is, the email marketing, you know, moved away from snail mail. You’re setting me up, aren’t you, Rick? You’re getting good at this interview thing. You know exactly where I was going next with the discussion, which… Are we going to talk about direct mail?

[25:23] Well, when it comes to email marketing, I know that that is, I mean, emails, let’s be honest, email is a little underrated just in general, I think. I mean, we’re all in front of it every day. and it still has a better engagement rate than I think almost any other marketing channel because we’re all sitting in front of it. And no doubt with nonprofit, it’s huge. So, we talk communications, getting the word out, building advocacy. To a degree, you can do it in just a few minutes. Give us your hot take on email marketing for nonprofits and its role. Well, email marketing is core. It is the thing that changes less than others. I won’t say it doesn’t change because you’ve always got to keep up with the algorithms and how,

The Impact of Email Marketing in Nonprofit Fundraising

[26:09] you know, in Gmail, you don’t want to end up in the promotions folder. You want to end up in the main inbox. It’s easier said than done. Yeah. It takes a lot of work. You’ve got to, you know, now you’ve got to make sure the authentication is right, and you have a DKIM record and all that. So, you know, there’s evolution there, but that really is…

[26:33] It’s been the sweet spot for the last 20 years or so where email costs less than direct mail, something that’s going to end up in somebody’s hands. And there’s still a very big audience that wants to feel that letter from you in their hands, that wants to see your newsletter in their hands. But email marketing, it’s faster, it’s easier. You can segment the audiences a lot easier. year, you can get the information in people’s hands. And then the action you want them to take is one click away. You know, you don’t need them to go to their desk, pull out their checkbook, write the check, put it in the envelope, put the stamp on it, you know, go to the mailbox. They can click, they can, you know, choose which way they want to donate.

[27:20] And, you know, they, or they, you can have them click and send an email to their elected representative, or you can have them click and share this email with five friends. There are a lot of things where email just, it’s the old standby, and it’s worked even as social media platforms have come and gone in terms of being in favor, just email continues to be the place to be. And you started to touch on it, fundraising. I mean, that’s a whole other episode or two or five or 10. But if we could just scratch the surface a little bit on that, since we’re doing an overview here, broad question, I know. But when it comes to fundraising, give us the most viable way to perhaps raise

Building Funds from Small Donors in Nonprofit Organizations

[28:14] the funds from small donors first, and we’ll talk about corporate or larger donors next. Sure. And really, it’s a matter of getting…

[28:25] Getting the essence of your cause into an email. Email, again, it’s just the easiest way of getting the word out and having people share it and have it actually showed up. Because if somebody forwards an email, it’s landing in their friend’s inbox. If they like something on social media, maybe their friend will see it in their feed, maybe not. But fundraising is core to organizations. They need those dollars to be able to do their work. And right now, donations to nonprofits are down, especially when you’re talking about small donors, regular donors. The big thing a lot of nonprofits are focusing on is recurring donors and making it so it’s not something where somebody has to think about it and go and make a donation, even if it’s one click away. Way, making it so that donation’s happening automatically, and hopefully every month, where you take somebody who was donating, say, $100 a year, you go to them and speak.

[29:31] Hey, we really appreciate you. You’re making a big difference here. Would you consider donating $10 a month instead?

[29:41] And $10 a month feels like, whoa, that’s easy. But when you add it up at the end of the year, now that person’s donating $120 to your cause instead of $100. Yeah, 20% increase. Yeah. And what if you slide them to $15, $20 a month, which all feels more achievable than at the end of the year, you’re making all your donations and $100 here, $100 there. It adds up. It feels like more. But if you get them as a monthly donor, it can be so much more effective. They’re getting a thank you, an automated thank you every month saying, hey, we really appreciate what you’re doing. And that donation feels a lot easier. But at the same time, the organization’s bringing in more and you turn more people into those recurring donors. It really helps build up the organization and it makes it a lot easier so you’re not wondering, worrying if this donor is going to make their donation in December or not. It makes it so you have this base that you can count on. And so that’s just one of many, many, many aspects of fundraising. crazy. And speaking of appreciation, any other tips or tricks or maybe less obvious

Appreciating Donors: Tips and Tricks

[31:03] approaches to making sure donors feel appreciated that come to mind?

[31:08] Uh, well, in a lot of cases, it’s not giving them a t-shirt or a tote bag, which certainly are nice and helpful. We’re pro tote bag here. We like tote bags. No, tote bags are great. You know, you get one of those reusable grocery bags, somebody’s in the grocery store, hey, you’ve got some marketing going on there. Yeah, there you go. The t-shirt, they’re probably going to stash it in their drawer and they’re going to wear it when they’re painting the house. They tend to shrink if they’re cheap. That too. And so, thinking about if you have donors who do appreciate a gift, making it a gift that helps spread the word about the organization. That’s why I mentioned the grocery bag. Yeah. because everybody needs the reusable grocery bags. They wear out all the time. So, if one of them is your thing, oh, hey, what is this charity? Let me check it out.

[32:02] But for most people, they just want to be thanked. They just want to be acknowledged. And they want to know what it is that their money is going toward. Show them the impact. Don’t just say, hey, we appreciate your supporting, Recording, finding homes for animals, you know, tell them the story of an animal that you helped find a home for. Make it feel personal to them because they care. They really do. That’s why they’re supporting the organization. And so, you know, doing short videos, you know, YouTube is helpful.

[32:40] So, you know, showing these different things about the impact because that’s why they’re involved. Involved it’s not because they want to buy something from you it’s because they want to make an impact they want to help your organization do something and list and again going back to listening to them about what are the things that they care about because it’s not hard to record five different one-minute videos that are targeted to different parts of your audience and thanking them for supporting different things it it’s really easy I mean the iPhone and android or everything, all the advances in technology have made this very easy. And it’s, you know, getting to the point where AI can help as long as you’re protecting the privacy of the people who donate to you, and that’s going to be, kind of the next frontier is talking about how AI can help with not just delivering of services, but.

[33:42] And increasing the way that you target your marketing but doing it in a way because people are very, very nervous right now about what information is getting fed into chat GPT and co-pilot and all of those, especially when you’re talking about causes that deal with sensitive issues. When you’re talking about immigration issues, when you’re talking about abortion issues, people are very nervous about their information, whether they’re coming to an organization for help or donating to the organization, getting fed into a system, and what happens to that. And so, when it comes to communications and marketing, privacy is going to be a big thing.

Navigating Privacy Concerns in Nonprofit Communications

[34:30] All of the things when you’ve got the cookie reminder at the bottom of a website and determining that there’s just going to be a lot of needing to be very transparent with donors about how you’re using their information.

[34:45] So you’ll have another two, three episodes on that. I take it in you referencing that this must be, well, at risk of stating the obvious, very front of mind right now and something that’s maybe taking up a good portion of your time or more of your time than it has in the past. These privacy rules and the content, the guardrails you might put around the content, the disclaimers you might put on the sites.

[35:13] Anything else to add to that discussion and or specific tips or tactics that you’ve seen be useful? I think the first thing is, you know, there are just so many, the laws are all over the place right now because, I mean, ChatGPT was a revelation. It changed everything. And now everything is coming out with the AI features, and you’ve got it in Microsoft Office and Adobe Acrobat, you know, got an update yesterday for all the AI features. And so, it’s something where it’s a new frontier where everybody’s trying to figure it out as it’s evolving minute by minute. But privacy is a big concern because you need to be treating the information of the people who support your organization the way you’d want your own information to be treated. And so, it’s very important to be transparent when somebody signs up for your list to say, you know.

[36:17] I rent my list to other nonprofits, which we don’t recommend, or your information is protected. It’s here. This is how we’re going to use it. You’re going to hear from us once a month, and we’re not going to give your information to anybody else. We’re not going to do anything else with your information. Or here is exactly what we’re going to use your information for because people are expecting that now. And they should. It’s good to be transparent so that people know my email address is protected. I’m going to hear from one group, not 500 groups. I mean, it’s one of the biggest complaints that we hear when people write into our contact form or call us up. I donated to one nonprofit and now I’ve got like 20 others who are helping me. And it makes that person less likely to continue to support that first nonprofit. And so, you’ve got to be very careful with the information that you have if you really want to keep people involved.

[37:20] Well, Rick, clearly, you’re a wealth of information on the subject. I had a feeling that we’d only be able to scratch the surface, us, so we’ll have to have you back again.

Concluding Insights with Rick Cohen

[37:29] In the meantime, for our viewers or listeners that want to get more information about how to improve or market their nonprofit, is the National Council for Nonprofits a good place to go for that type of information? Absolutely. Just www.counselofnonprofits.org. We’ve got tons of resources that we make available for free. It’s our commitment to equity. It’s our commitment to making sure every nonprofit has the resources they need to help their communities. We’ve got a couple of free newsletters, but lots and lots of information.

[38:05] They should engage with their state association of nonprofits just to get involved in what’s happening at the local level as well. There’s a lot of resources through them. And really, for us, it’s a matter of making sure where everybody’s got the tools they need, so. Brilliant. Rick, thanks so much for being on the show. We really appreciate it. Oh, thank you.

[38:26] Music.